Tuesday, August 10, 2010

"Let God be true, and every man a liar"

By Stan Butler



When discussing a spiritual subject with someone, I usually try to respond as often as possible with, “according to the scriptures God says…” instead of… “well, I believe”, or… “I feel that.” The reason for this is that what I believe or how I feel about something is subject to change, but what God has had to say on a subject NEVER changes. The Bible was written so ordinary men just like you and I could read and understand it, although at times it may require some study. It doesn’t take a college professor, a preacher of high esteem, or even a preacher of low esteem, a Sunday school teacher, a Rabi, an elder, or a deacon, or a priest to read and relate us what this book says. I find no place in the Bible that God has asked for assistance from denominational man made written Creeds or Books of Discipline. For me, the Word of God is the first and the last word. It stands alone.

To start with I would like to ask a question and please don't be offended… “Would you ever call God a liar?” Myself, I don’t have the intestinal fortitude (the guts) to do that. I find in Titus 1:2; … which God, who cannot lie… And in Hebrews 6:11; …in which it was impossible for God to lie… Now when God says that He cannot lie, it’s settled as far as I’m concerned. Now that wasn’t always the case for me. I grew up attending and joining several denominational churches because I was an Army brat, and we attended the church closest to our home every time we moved at Uncle Sam’s whim. So while growing up, I was a pretty mixed up and confused young man as all these churches had different ideas about what God had to say about the same subjects. When I finally left home, I also left God, the Church, the Bible and everything concerning spiritual things back home as well. Several years passed and one night I accepted the invitation to become a Christian. One of the things these folks told me I had to do to be saved was to be baptized. I hadn’t heard or been taught this in any of the churches I was brought up in, so I decided to check it out for myself. In my research, it wasn’t easy for me to believe what I was reading and studying. What I read was telling me that what my mother and father had believed and taught me was not what God had actually said. And it’s the subject of baptism I want to use to see if perhaps there are those reading this message that are either unknowingly or maybe even defiantly “calling God a liar.” I hope we can agree on one thing: when it comes down to the final authority, “let God be true, and every man a liar.” (Romans 3:4)

Jesus (God in the flesh) said, “Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5) Anyone that denies that water baptism is not part of God’s plan of salvation has apparently not read this verse. It’s really not that complicated, it says what it says, so “let God be true and every man a liar.”

This same Jesus said, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” (Mark 16:16) This doesn’t require much study or thought but it does require some. Let us reason together: according to the scriptures if one will believe and be baptized…he will be saved. Now remember…God says that. Now, good ole rockin’ chair logic would tell us that if for any reason one does not believe, they won’t want to be baptized and thus they will be damned. There are many that teach that all we must do is believe and that baptism is optional. They’ve said to me, I’ve read Mark 16:16 and know that’s what it says but that’s not what it means. Is God lying to us here? It’s really not that complicated so "let God be true and every man a liar."

One more point to make here: there are those that read this verse and apparently have dyslexia. They say after scrutinizing this verse, “He that is baptized and then believeth some years later shall be saved. This would be those churches that practice the sprinkling of infants. Sprinkling is not baptism and using God’s word I’ll expose it as such a bit later. Since Jesus places belief before baptism, can an infant believe in Jesus or confess their sins at a week old? Did God give these churches permission to change the order of things He’s written? I find no such permission given in His Word. It’s really not that complicated so “let God be true and every man a liar.”

Then Peter said unto them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38) These were the terms of pardon that God led Peter to set forth on the Day of Pentecost after preaching the very first gospel sermon. Those that believed the message wanted to know what they must do. Peter told them to repent and be baptized for the remission (forgiveness) of their sins. The word repent and the word baptized are connected by the conjunction “and”. So let us reason together, no repentance…no forgiveness. No baptism…no forgiveness. Belief, repentance and baptism = forgiveness.

Let’s take a look at sprinkling or pouring and see if it fits the mold of the baptisms that are written in the Word of God. First I want you to notice that water is NEVER brought to the candidate for baptism…they are taken to the water and go into the water. Mark 1:5; and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan. Mark 1:10; and straightway coming out of the water. John 3:23; John was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim because there was much water there. Acts 8:38; and they went down both into the water. No where in the scriptures does it even hint that we have permission to sprinkle or pour water over someone and call it baptism or that God will honor it as baptism. Sprinkling and pouring do not represent baptism. In Colossians 2:12; we are told that we are buried with Him in baptism and are risen with Him. You can’t be buried in a sprinkle or pouring of water…it takes much water.

What about the statement that baptism is a work. Actually, there is something that the candidate must do during baptism come to think of it and it’s found in the same verse as used above. Colossians 2:12; says we must have “faith” in the operation (power) of God. Now I don’t know about you but that doesn’t sound like work to me and the operation of God is defined in the very next verse…That He (God) has forgiven you all trespasses.

Then there’s the sinners prayer and those who say, “Well, what about Romans 10:13”; “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Well, what about it? It says the very same thing in Acts 2:21; and again in Acts 22:16 where we find both how and when to call on the name of the Lord. Saul (later to be named Paul) had prayed for three solid days not even stopping to eat, was told to “don’t wait…arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” Please take note that Saul was not told to be baptized as an outward sign of an inward grace. After three days of prayer, he was still in his sinful condition and today there are those who convince others that by praying a short “sinners prayer” they can be saved on the spot... just be sincere. Is there any doubt that Saul was sincere as he prayed? Look at this conversion…it’s not that complicated so “let God be true, and every man a liar.”

There are only two groups of people in this entire world; those that are in Christ and those that are outside of Christ. There is only one way that according to the scriptures that one is told how to get into Christ…through baptism. Romans 6:3; "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Christ were baptized into his death." Galatians 3:27; "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. We are baptized into Christ. We can’t pray our way into Him, we can’t just believe our way into Him. It’s not that complicated so “let God be true and every man a liar.”

1Corinthians 2:13nasb; "Speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Holy Spirit." Let’s see where some have failed to obey these words.

1) Baptism is a work…human wisdom…not taught in the scriptures.

2) Baptism is an outward sign of an inward grace…human wisdom…not taught in the scriptures.

3) Sinner’s prayer for salvation…human wisdom…not taught in the scriptures.

4) Baptize by sprinkling or pouring…human wisdom…not taught in the scriptures.

5) Repent and believe to be saved, be sprinkled, poured, or immersed later but only if you wish…human wisdom…not taught in the scriptures.

6) Mourner’s bench or altar conversions…human wisdom…not taught in the scriptures.

Let me conclude by quoting God's word”For by Grace are you saved, through faith.” Take that to the bank. We don’t deserve and can’t earn this salvation but by the Grace of God He has made a way. It’s through the precious blood of His Son Jesus. The water in baptism cannot and does not and never will wash away sin, but it’s there in obedience to baptism that we contact His blood if we do it for the forgiveness of our sins. Now the rest of the verse; through faithfaith as your standing waist to chest high in the water about to be immersed, that your sins are going to be washed away with the blood of Jesus by the power of Almighty God. It’s not that complicated so “let God be true and every man a liar.”

This post is an edited repeat of a previous post “Would you call God a liar?” which was mistakenly removed from my blog archive. Several followers have questioned the “What must one DO to be saved” question on my sidebar and I feel it’s fitting to run this article again. In doing so, I should be answering most questions that have been asked.

50 comments:

Steve Finnell said...

EXCELLENT post

Jingle said...

it seems like u r a passionate blogger who has a faith...
love your thoughtfulness...
Thanks for following...
I will follow back...

Kerrie said...

Great post as always,and wonderful references. Kerrie

Celestina Marie Designs said...

This is a wonderful post. Thank you for sharing.
Have a blessed and faith filled day.
Celestina Marie

PJ said...

Excellent post! I couldn't have said it better myself.

God Bless!

PJ

Jenna said...

I'm Curious, If I person hears the word of God for the first time and decides to accept Christ as his savior and Repents of his sins and has a heart attack before being baptized, do you think he will not go to heaven? Does God make acceptions?

Is baptism not an outward symbol of your dedicaton to Christ? Do if you are sprinkled and not dunked, then you aren't really saved as a Christian? Is God that picky?

I believe that you should be Baptized but I don't know if God punishes those that aren't. What do you think?

Jill said...

Christians argue all the time about doctrines that aren't clearly lined out in scripture. I don't have a problem with in-house debates, as long as they don't cause divisions. But they do. And as humans, we're always trying to lean on our own understanding. We often don't know where we derive our doctrines--from church teachings or from the Bible

There are some doctrines that the Bible is very clear about: salvation is one of those, and baptism is another (although, as you say, baptism is a part of the gospel message). God purposefully made the salvation message very clear.

I look back on my own baptism with excitement, which is kind of strange, considering it was 20 years ago. That excitement never really goes away, I've discovered.

fuzzys dad said...

Like you I had moved away from God.
I also was confused by the different things I had been taught.
I have been seeking and finding the truths in God's word.

Larry Jamison said...

You have made it very plain and very simple, and "according to the scriptures", not according to the doctrines of men. I came to these same conclusions myself. It must be pointed out, that this makes one a "Christian", not a Baptist, Catholic, Luthern, ect. I think that is important. If we love Christ as our Saviour, why not just wear His name and obey Him! Larry Jamison

George said...

Thanks for another great post.

Designs by JoLea said...

Dear Stan,
I hope not to come off as argumentative. I do believe in the power of baptism by immersion, for it's symbolism of dying to the old man, and rising again as a new creation in Christ. However, your statements could be understood to say that without it, you cannot be saved. That would leave out untold millions who cannot or will not be baptized. And salvation is a free gift, we can do nothing to earn it.
If you apply your reasoning, that salvation is linked with baptism in this way, then salvation also depends on edurance (...but he that endures to the end shall be saved. Matt 10:22), or on diligence (...give diligence to make your calling and election sure... 2 Pet 1:10-11).
All of this, of course, lends itself to exactly what I struggle against, and that is allowing doctrinal differences to create divisions in the fellowship of believers. You are welcome to message me with your thoughts.

RLassBuck said...

That was really, really good :) I like it!

Emma Michaels said...

Amazing Post!
With coding:
The Thirteenth Chime was released early! My publisher asked me to post an extra special gift on my blog to all of my blogger friends and followers who have stuck by me and helped me spread the word! I have been following you for a while and your words have really helped me so thank you! Please stop by and check it out!!!

Thank you so much for your support and sticking by me through this amazing process!


Sincerely,
Emma Michaels
http://EmmaMichaels.Blogspot.com
http://emmamichaels.blogspot.com/2010/08/early-release-for-thirteenth-chime.html

Gorges Smythe said...

For what it's worth to you, I've usually heard that "born of water" means the natural birth, as in the breaking of a woman's water before giving birth. I won't argue the point, but you might want to look into it.

misslynda said...

One thing about commenting after others have left theirs is what I was going to say has already been said so count it confirmation to hear again, "Excellent post." I, too, appreciate that you point others back to Scripture. And I liked that you included some of your personal testimony.

Jack Kung said...

Hi, thanks for visiting my blog and writing a comment for me. You have a wonderful blog here, and a lot of great content and comments.

Belle said...

I'm glad I came to your post today. I've been thinking about my daughters who are 37 and 40 yrs. old. They are now following Christ, but none of us belong to any church any more. Is it possible for me to baptize them? They won't go to church because of how badly the church has treated them. One of my daughters was molested by a church school teacher. I've wanted to talk with them about baptism but don't know what to say.

Chris said...

And we must keep in mind the context of the writing. Too many times people edit the scripture so it bends to their belief. I've seen many people use the Bible out of context as a tool of false teaching just as much as they use "I believe...". There is a lot of cut and paste in popular religious topic books and web sites. They jump around the Bible taking one sentace here and one sentance there to make their point.

AlbertaMama said...

Thanks for inviting me to check out your blog and for following mine. I look forward to reading more of your posts and the one that I have read are wonderful and thought provoking. Thanks and God bless!

Ian Curtis said...

Good day, my friend.
For what it is worth I would like to reason with you about the topic your post addresses.
First allow me to say that I believe all Christians should be baptized; Jesus said, "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." Baptism was commanded, Mark 16:16.
It is the efficacy of baptism I would like to address and reason about. Paul, when addressing the Corinthians, told them that Jesus sent him to preach the gospel, not to baptize, clearly separating the two issues by basis of importance; it was imperative to hear the gospel, and to that end Paul was sent 1st Corinthians 1:17. He was not remiss summing up the gospel either. Paul said he received the gospel by direct revelation from Christ, that it was what he preached, what we must receive, by which we are saved...but baptism is not mentioned at all, 1st Corinthians 15:1-4.
Jesus said the only work we must do is believe on Him, John 6:29. Anyone who comes to Him would not be cast out, John 6:37. Anyne who believes has passed from life to death and won't face judgment, John 5:24. Paul said anyone who believes is justified, Acts 13:39. He also said it was the only criteria necessary to save the Philippian jailor, Acts 16:31. He writes to the Romans faith alone saves, Romans 10:9. He writes that anything that is not faith is a work, Romans 4:4-5. He affirms this again in Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:27.
God's plan of salvation is eternal, Titus 1:2, 2nd Timothy 1:9. The angel in Revelation calls the gosepl itself eternal, Revelation 14:6. This hearkens back to Genesis 3:15 when the first promise of God was made to Adam and Eve. Faith in God and His promises save on either side of the cross. The just shall live by his faith, Habukkuk 2:4.
Peter declared all men shall be saved in the same manner, purifying our hearts by faith through grace, Acts 15:9, 11.
On this side of the cross we look back in faith at the promise of salvation purchased by our Savior, and we are saved; those before the cross looked ahead, Hebrews 11. God made the Old Testament saints wait for us because of the greater thing He planned for the New Testament saints: conformity into the image of Christ, Hebrews 11:39-40; Romans 8:29-30.
There are so many passages that preach salvation by faith alone that it literally dwarfs Mark 16:16, John 3:5, etc. Why ignore these plain declarations? We are to rightly divide the word, comparing scripture to scripture to see where the truth of the matter is. Mark 16:16 may seem a simple, straight forward passage, but so does "My Father is greater than I." I don't deduce form this that Jesus is confessing that He is not God; I rightly divide the word to see how the New Testament as a whole explains the person of Jesus Christ. This is why I reject water baptism as a necessity. A handful of verses (hotly debated as to their implication and meaning) cannot erase the unanimous testimony of dozens of passages that declare faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing.
God cannot change, Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8. Neither does His plan for redeeming Adam's sinful race. We have been blessed to live on this side of the cross, where the revelation is so much more clear in the person of Jesus Christ, and His gospel; we have been blessed to be included in the universal church by believing on Him for eternal life.
I apologize for the length; I just wanted to share my insight regarding the matter. All my love to my brothers and sister in Christ, Ian.

covnitkepr1 said...

@Ian...guess the old adage is true. "You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make him drink it."
Guess the same would hold true for the believer, "You can lead a believer to the water, but you can't force him to get in."

ElderChild said...

Anabaptists, most of whom followed the teachings of a catholic priest named menno simons, believed that water baptism was not for new born babes but for those who had been previously baptized in, of, by The Holy, Set Apart, Spirit? Seems they are liken unto impetuous Peter who declared, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we? And Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of The Messiah." "Any man forbid"? And since when was Peter the commander? Especially since only "The Good News for the circumcised was committed unto Peter".

What of "water baptism", why is it that so many seek to follow all that can be observed "outwardly" to the letter? Is that not but the legacy of the pharisee's?

Truth IS water baptism was for the Israelites who were yet under the authority of the old covenant, for the Israelites had been "baptized into Moses in the cloud and the sea", and so the need for the "baptism of repentance", the outward testimony of turning from the sacrificial system that was of the law given Moses for a "disobedient and gainsaying people", a turning(repenting) from the sacrificial system given Moses unto The Promised Messiah for the forgiveness of sin.

The thief on the cross was the first to realize The Good News of The New Covenant! And all that was needed was "the washing of water by The Word", immersion in, of and by The Holy, Set Apart, Spirit.

And Paul saw no need for the gentiles to be baptized in water for he testified, "The Messiah sent me not to baptize but to preach The Good News", the same Good News that the thief on the cross received. As for the three, and the family of one of them, that Paul did baptize, nowhere is it stated they were heathens and not natural jews.

Thing is that everything that could be considered "outward observation", which is that which can be fulfilled in and of the flesh, and fleshly mind, is divisive! And oh, how the multitudes flock to systems of religion that are of, and in the flesh, and the fleshly emotions of the mind. The anabaptist(mennonite) youth of today are a sad example, for their "born again" emotional experiences but allows them to enter into the domain of emotional salvation ;-(

Yet, when it comes to forsaking all?

Sadly, the anabaptists took heed unto the catholic priests who led them along "the broad way to destruction". Not that the martyrs of Martyr's Mirror part II were damned, for their Faith was demonstrated in Overcoming Power and not water baptism, however, today's anabaptists are but a fleshly, pharisaical side-show. In fact the only "reformer" of times past who saw that catholicism was totally and completely of, and in the flesh, was a man name of george fox. He was a man who sought only that which was Spirit and Truth. No question concerning his Baptism in, of and by The Holy, Set Apart, Spirit. Sadly, he accepted the praises of men and began to establish naught but another system of religion. The quakers(friends) of today bear witness to what happens when mankind makes any attempt to systematize that which is of The Spirit. Sadly The Spirit is quenched as mankind seeks to organize and control his only hope for True Liberty, "The Glorious Liberty of The Children of The Only True GOD, Father of ALL", which is simply defined as:

"Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done"! (continued)

ElderChild said...

For as The Messiah did, so also His Brethren realize "i can do nothing of mine own self".......

And so as mankind quenches The Spirit, they rely on their "imag"ination, and so it is that "time" becomes one of the most important factors in their temporal life ;-( And today we see most of mankind but serving 'time' in the prison that is this wicked, evil world. All for the sake of the m-o-n-e-y that can give them the desire of their hearts, "ease of life" ;-(

Sadly, all who serve "time" experience naught but a "shadow of life", pleasing to the flesh at times, yet the end result being separation from Their Father(Creator), HE WHO IS The Spirit that gave them life, and yet sustains the life given until they draw their last breath(which is spirit) ;-(

And then?

Sadder yet, for while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

Yet come that last breath?

Multitudes of those who profess a belief in The Messiah will hear those woe-filled words, "depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity" ;-(

It is well to remember that The Messiah testified, "The words that I speak are not My words, they are the words of The Father, HE WHO sent Me"!

And The Messiah testified, "I can do nothing of mine own self".......

And Our Father, HE WHO Created all things of, by and thru The Messiah?

HE CAN DO!

The focus of The Messiah was on His G-D and Father, HE WHO IS also The G-D and Father of The Messiah's Brethren, HE WHO IS The ONE and Only True G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL.......

And the focus of pagan catholicism and her harlot christian daughters?

Sadly, on their "imag"ined 'jesus christ', one head of their "imag"ined three headed pagan catholic g-d ;-(

There is but "One Baptism(Spiritual), and ONE G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL".......

Simply, Faith will not create a system of religion, for what are "Brothers and Sisters" if not Family?

And would not The Family of Faith be closer than a natural, physical family?

No you say? Why then are men called upon to "forsake all", their natural families as well?

"Come Out of her, MY people"!

Come Out of this wicked, evil world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one"(1JN5:19)indeed and Truth.......

Truth IS, and IS Forever.......

Abide in Truth.......

lollette9 said...

How great God is to put together people who believe in Jesus wholeheartedly even through blogs! I enjoyed reading your blog. Your message is strong and you speak from your heart!

Freebiejunkie said...

Thank you for your service to our Country and for sharing the Word of God. Also, thank you for visiting my blog and for your nice comments. I am actually doing a fundraiser in my local city for the Fisher House. I hope to inspire others to be good stewards with the money God has blessed them with. I will be checking back and reading lot's more!

shinelikestars said...

I haven't read through the whole entry, but I was struck by the first part.

this has never crossed my mind before... I find myself sharing what I "think" and what I "believe", but I have failed to quote directly from Scripture MANY times. that's why I am usually at a loss for words. why didn't I just go straight to what HE says?

thank you for this reminder!

Tim said...

What I truly love about this post and the comment thread is the passion and faith that rings out of every statement.

I was raised in a tradition that dunked. I now worship with one that sprinkles. I confess to flinching occasionally when the pastor meets new converts or young children at the baptismal font. But then my soul silences as I hear the same confession of faith and conviction--whether in the new convert's pledge or the parents' vow to raise their child in a godly manner.

For me, the witness isn't in the quantity of water. It's in the public confession of faith, which echoes Paul's teaching in Romans 10:9-10: "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

I agree, going to the water is important. What makes it essential is what's said while we're there.

Thanks for this, Larry--another stimulating post that invites all of us to reassess our beliefs and embrace God's Word!

Blessings,
Tim

Hootiebee said...

Thanks for stopping by. I am checking out your blog and it looks really nice. Can't wait to read more!

Grammy Blick said...

Doesn't matter what I believe -- and it doesn't matter whether the person I'm speaking to believes the Bible -- the Bible remains the base of my reaching our Lord. Where I am in His plan is based on what I read in His word and how He speaks to me in my prayers. So, verses are my way of reaching out to others. His word will not return void.

Ian Curtis said...

My friend, do not think that I'm writing to "win my point" or harrass you; far from it. But I fevently love my God, His truth, and the souls of men. I pursue this only because of the seemingly casual way you dismissed my scirptural rebuttal out of hand. Did nothing I say have merit? I present this earnest question in all honesty: are you incorporated into the body of Christ through faith in Him, or through water baptism? How do you defend water baptism's necessity? I have pointed out that seemingly obvious verses may not be so (just ask cultists). Are we made sons of God by faith, or through the sacrament of water baptism? If the latter, is this not a confession bordering on Roman Catholicism? And if so, was Christ's full payment for sin insufficient?
I may not have studied God's word for as long as you have, but I have been a student for years, and have come to the conclusion that our salvation has nothing to do with what we do for God; it is what Christ has done for us that saves us, and keeps us saved. The burden of salvation's reception and retention lay on the One who promised, and He is faithful even when we are faithless. The promise is only so good as the One promising, after all. We could never earn or keep salvation; Christ can do both perfectly.
To imply water baptism as being mandatory (you have admitted faith alone will not save) is to assert that something must be done by us, other than believing, before God will give us eternal life as a free gift.
I am open to hear your response, and to see how you reason from scripture; I wish to know why you believe what you believe. But please don't answer me with Mark 16:16 and simply say, Because Jesus said so. Jehovah's Witnesses, and Roman Catholics, et al, can do that. Reason with me, and you will (I pray) find in me a reasonable listener.
My love to you, and my regret for offending you if I have; I am concerned, and write out of love. Yours in Christ, Ian.

covnitkepr1 said...

@Ian...I'm not offended at all and I hope that your not offended by my answer. I can't answer any other way but to point to the scriptures that I used in this post. I believe that I was thoughral and covered every angle in the post. There is not much else for me to say except what the scriptures say.
Take all the scriptures that have to do with salvation and put them together and not leave one out and the end result is...belief(faith) repentance, confession, and baptism ==initial salvation. Then be faithful till death. I can say no more or no less.

My Cottage Charm said...

Hey Stan! :)
Thanks for being my newest follower at My cottage charm...I'm following you now too. :) I like your blog...so true and to the point, keep up the good work and spreading the good news.
Have a blessed day!
Missy

My Journey With Candida said...

Very nice post. I have become your follower and am looking forward to more posts.

Thank you for visitiong my blog and following me. I am following you as well.

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CathyMae JOY said...

Excellent points. Wish you well on the path God is leading you to reach lost souls.

Arts&Disability said...

Hi, Stan,
You referenced such great scripture. Appreciate your thoughts & efforts! We mention only a thought... not new... but that the other thief on the cross... definitely was "saved" (of course he could not have been "baptized".) Such an incredible example! So, to us the realization of works & faith / grace .... is realized in... "If one calls on the name of our Lord... & truly believes!... Why wouldn't he/she want to be baptized!" Thus.... all you said so well. Appreciate the wisdom.
Love in our Lord,
His Sonshine

ElderChild said...

Quite simply, that which is "born of water" refers to the fleshly birth and has naught to do with the "water baptism" that was for the natural jew.

Also, The Messiah baptized not, and Paul was sent to the gentiles, not to baptize them but to preach The Good News.......

And unless one is "born of The Spirit", unless one experiences "The One Baptism" as they were immersed in, of, by and thru The Holy, Set Apart, Spirit, they will not inherit The Kingdom of Heaven(G-D).......

Water baptism is #3 on the list of pagan catholic/christian folklore ;-(

And their stories(lies) have been told for so long, by so many, that the multitudes believe the Lies ;-(

Sadly, the multitudes will then reject The Truth when given opportunity to receive ;-(

And then one day they will hear those woe-filled words;

"Depart from Me, I never knew you,,,,." ;-(

Iphigenia said...

Hi Stan, just read your post! :)Have a great day.

Brad Lewis said...

I'm following your Blog now. Thanks for following mine!

-Brad

LandShark 5150 said...

Thanks for the stop-by and follow. You happen to hit me when that inner voice has been speak'n. After 46 yrs of a one man march, two yrs ago, I was baptised and after taking a selfish stroll, I found meself lost again. Being not to far from the path I could still hear the directions back. Funny how his voice is easier to hear now. Must be that I'm asking the right questions and opening the doors that are being unlocked.
Will follow (have to get to the home computer), again Thank You for your follow and kind words.

MB said...

Thanks for following my blog. I am now following yours. Sorry it has taken me so long to come here. My mom died and I've just been out of it. I have another blog where i talk about my faith.. www.crossdrivenhome.com. Anyway, hope to read more of your stuff soon :)

William said...

I don't agree that what you are saying the scripture says is true as it relates to being baptized. I know that it is clear that every believer should be baptized. However there are some instances where that is not possible. My faith is not in being baptized my faith and your faith is in the finished work of Christ. Think about this for a minute what about the guy on the cross. He believed and spent eternity with Christ. He was not baptized. Your blogs are always good as this one has some good food. I just dont agree with your interpretation of scripture in this case.

ElderChild said...

"Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved", "IF you continue in The Faith grounded and settled".

And the "One Baptism" Paul bore witness too?

The Baptism(immersion)of the believer by The Messiah in, of, by and through The Holy, Set Apart, "Spirit and fire"!

No longer are they citizens of this wicked, evil world for their "citizenship is in Heaven"!

Truly, they are "aliens and pilgrims while on the earth".......

Father Help! and HE does.......

B. Niles said...

I love the appeal of salvation at the end of your comment section. "He that winneth souls is wise."

Izze said...

Hallaleuia someone finally spoke it. lol I had just the same type of circle conversation with someone who refused to realize that what they were saying was unbiblical even though I said, the scripture says...."fill in the blank". Some denominations twist it to what they want it to mean. The Word is the Word is the Word forever AMEN! Love the humor.

Izze said...

read Luke 23:43 ;)

From The Heart Online said...

Hi! Stopped by your blog - thanks for visiting mine (and welcome, new follower!)

This is a great post. It's wise to lean on scripture rather than our own understanding. It also requires great 'fortitude' in Christ to stand against human wisdom and cling instead to scripture. What an amazing pull human wisdom has when I WANT to believe it...

Thank you for challenging 'human wisdom'. I pray for boldness in this area :)

Stop by again sometime!

-Kim

Anonymous said...

There aren't many sources of a rightly divided word being preached. I have Followed Pastor Tony Smith from thewayofgodchurch.com, and found that he is one of the VERY FEW who sticks to the word EXACTLY as it is written. I would suggest that you all take a look at him at the website, or on youtube.

Bro. Clay

ElderChild said...

i am thankful that i can share that which i believe i received of Our Father.


First, it was revealed quite some time ago that when a "mennonite" reads the "bible", the "bible" is then interpreted by that "mennonite" spirit, a "baptist" by that "baptist" spirit, an "amish" by that "amish" spirit, etc....... ;-(

Sad, very sad indeed ;-(

Then the same was revealed in a different, yet very similar way.

When an "american" reads the "bible", the "bible" is then interpreted by that "american" spirit, a "german" by that "german" spirit, etc....... ;-(

Which is also very sad ;-(

And a combination of the two, such as "german baptist" is sadder yet ;-((

A number of years ago Simplicity clearly spoke to me, "religion is anti-Messiah"!

Then a while ago, Simplicity spoke once again, "Pure and undefiled religion before GOD and Our Father is this, to visit the fatherless(those who know not Our Father[Creator]) and widows(those whose Bridegroom[The Messiah] has died and not yet risen again in The Power[Spirit] that is Truth) in their affliction and to keep oneself uncontaminated by the world."

James 1:27 bears witness to "pure and undefiled religion"!

Simply all other religion is impure and defiled!

So it is that religion is of this world and but carries on the legacy of the pharisee's ;-(

Faith will not create a religion, for what are "brothers and sisters" if not Family?

"For this cause I bow my knees unto The Father of our Master Y'shua The Messiah, of WHOM the whole Family in Heaven and earth is named"!


Simply, Faith IS Family!

Then Simplicity spoke once again, and thankfully, by the grace of Our Father, i heard.

The Messiah testified, "I have not spoken of Myself; but The Father WHO sent Me, HE gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that HIS commandment is Life everlasting. Whatever I speak therefore, even as The Father said unto Me, so I speak."

And The Messiah testified, "The words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are Life"!

Simply, that which religion calls it's "bible" must be read in, and of The Spirit, as The Spirit leads one on The Way to The Truth of The Life! What is needed is a pure, open, and contrite heart seeking The Truth, and not hardened by the "strong delusion" that is this world's impure, seductive, and prideful systems of religion.

And if one reads "The Word of Truth" after having been captivated by the strong delusion that is a particular religion's "confession of faith" and/or "creed" and/or beliefs, such a one will most certainly be led of that particular religion's confession, creed or beliefs and not The Spirit of Truth ;-(

A son(adopted yet nonetheless a son) of GOD is born of The Spirit, not "the dordrecht confession of faith", "the apostles creed" or any other "statement of faith", "creed" or a particular religion's beliefs.......

Simply sad for all held captive by a worldly 501(c3) not-for-profit 'church' business, for that is exactly what they are, not for anyone's profit indeed and Truth!

"Come Out of her, MY people"!

Truth IS, a lie never was and is not.......

Abide in Truth.......

Anonymous said...

Hi,

In the book of James we read that belief or faith is dead (or cannot be seen) without works or actions. Jesus said that if we love him we should keep His commandments. Another writer says that we show our love to God by keeping His commandments. You see, actions do not save in themselves but because we are saved we act. Any true believer in Jesus will want to be baptized because Jesus says we should and Jesus himself was baptized. However like the thief on the cross next to Jesus, if a believer cannot despite his best efforts do something, God would not hold it against him.